Hi all,
Last week I shared about how the angels were sealed with robes of righteousness after Lucifer rebelled, sealing their decision - just as we are sealed after we believe.
Today, the core of what one must overcome if they think there was a 2nd angelic rebellion in the days of Noah.
If there was a rebellion in the days of Noah, here is what you have to overcome
If we set aside scripture and centuries of Jewish and Christian understanding that there was just 1 rebellion led by a cherub named Lucifer, and consider a 2nd angelic rebellion in the time of Noah, how would that be done?
First, God would need to create the right 'body part' in their angelic bodies
Jesus said that in heaven people are 'as the angels in heaven' (Mt 22:30, Mk 12:25).
The act of sex is of this natural world. Only physical beings in a physical world have the need for reproduction. Angels are not mating, making little angel babies in heaven. They are spirit-beings with spirit-bodies so reproduction isn't something they are equipped for.
On the earth, God commanded all plants and animals including humans, to multiply and fill the earth. In the realm of the Spirit there is no reproduction, no planet to fill, so angels don't have 'the equipment' physically to do so.
To have a second rebellion in which angels mate with women,
God Himself would have to be actively involved in the rebellion. Angels could not just 'grow' genitalia. Beyond that, God is the Source of all life. God would have to give them the 'seed' in their angelic bodies to be able to conceive with women.
If you believe the 'sons of God' were angels in a 2nd rebellion, you must make God complicit in the rebellion. In other words, He would have had to cooperate with the rebelling angels, helping them. He would have had to change their spiritual bodies to give them genitalia and THEN give them the seed required to conceive with a human woman.
Next issue:Cross-species reproduction
IF we make God part of the rebellion by creating in those rebellious angels the genitalia and then giving them the 'seed' with which to conceive with human women, we have the issue of cross-species mating.
Genesis tells us the Lord created life on the earth to create 'after its kind'. (Genesis 1:11-12, 21-25). God too remember, when all the lower life was created, decided to make beings after His own kind - you and me.
Everything after its kind:Cats mate with cats, dogs mate with dogs, elephants with elephants and so on. You won't see a cat conceiving with a dog (Would that be a 'dat' or a 'cog'? lol). You won't see an elephant mating with a rhinoceros and producing an offspring. (Would that be an eliphino? lol)
So once again God would have to become involved
To allow angels who are a higher class of creation, mate with human women in a cross-species conception and production of hybrid children - (hybrids are sterile) - that's what those who believe there was a 2nd angelic rebellion argue for.
For one to believe such things, they have to ignore Psalm 8:4-6 that says man was made a little lower than the angels. We are a lesser being as we aren't in the higher realm of the Spirit of God (yet). So again, God would have to be involved, breaking His Genesis command, to allow a higher order of creation, angels, to mate with a lesser species.
Can a horse mate with a lower order of creation like an alligator? Can a whale mate with a lower order of creation like a jellyfish? Then how could angels cross-species conceive with lower life forms (humans) unless God gave them the body parts, gave them 'seed', and then broke more of His laws by allowing cross-species and high to lower order of species conception?
Consider how much of a higher class of being angels in heaven are.
Angels have power as authorized by the Father, to destroy cities* or whole armies*. They appear in this realm at the Father's will. *Genesis 19:1-13, Isaiah 37:36)
Elijah went 40 days on the strength of 2 small meals* provided by the angel, showing food in heaven being a higher form of creation, has a life and strength giving ability far above earth food for earth bodies. *I Kings 19:5-12
All this means God would have to be personally involved in a 2nd rebellion:How else could beings of such superior creation be given the genitalia and the seed with which to conceive cross-species with lowly humans, except God the Father gave them the ability to do so? (While suspending His creation command that all things produce only after their kind)
It is well documented
When a human being is conceived, scientists have observed a flash of light at that moment. The Bible tells us in Hebrews 12:9, Zechariah 12:1 and other places that God is the one who provides the spirit when a person is conceived.
So for an angel to be given the 'equipment' and then the seed to conceive with human women in a cross-species, higher to lower conception, God would once again have to be involved to provide the life at the moment of conception.
It couldn't happen. He would be as guilty as they in the rebellion.
Angels saw the daughters of men were 'beautiful'?
Let's stop and consider if we believe angels looked down on the earth and saw human women were beautiful.
(The Hebrew word 'towb' used here is 'beautiful', 'appealing to the senses'. It is used elsewhere to describe good smelling perfume and good tasting food. Genesis 41:5, Song of Solomon 1:3, etc.)
Supposedly angels looked at beautiful women...
...in the time of Noah and said they wanted to have sex with them. First, it takes human flesh to be tempted with lust. James 1:13 says God is not tempted nor tested by evil. One reason is that the Father doesn't have human flesh by which He might be tempted. The Father doesn't know hunger, sleep, the need to relieve himself, nor what it means to be tempted sexually - he has no earthly flesh by which to be tempted.
Angels have heavenly/spirit bodies as well, so how could they be tempted with earth-body temptations?
That is why Christ had to become a human being
He had to experience temptation and not fail. He had to take upon Him human flesh which allowed Him to be tempted. If you are in the Spirit you are not tempted - you have to have an earth body to be tempted. Think about how we see this now in a small way - when we are in worship and in His presence, have you noticed all temptations, stresses, fears, and such of this world are not present? We currently experience this for a moment, but angels live in that peace, the focus on the spiritual - they don't have earth bodies to be tempted with earthly temptations.
Hmmm...for people who believe that angels back then saw that human women were beautiful, aren't there many more beautiful women on earth now with over 8 billion people alive? Most statistics I've seen say they estimate world population in the time of Abraham was about 5 million. In Noah's time we would think far fewer than that.
So...If there was an angelic rebellion over the beauty of women in Noah's time
Why haven't there been many more angelic rebellions since? There are many more beautiful women alive now and even in centuries past, than with Noah. The logic falls apart doesn't it? If you believe the motivation for the angelic rebellion was the beauty of earth-women, then why haven't we had multiple angelic rebellions since? That theory fall apart quickly doesn't it?
So how is it some believe angelic beings, superior to man, develop the natural senses that a lower class of creation, humans have, and would appeal to their flesh which they didn't have? We may think a dog or cat is beautiful, but it doesn't arouse us in that way - so why would we think such higher created beings would condescend to lowly humans, to be aroused with senses they weren't created with to want to have sex with them? It doesn't make sense.
Next week - who were the 'sons of God'?
Until then, blessings!
John Fenn
www.cwowi.org and email me at [email protected]
Last week I shared about how the angels were sealed with robes of righteousness after Lucifer rebelled, sealing their decision - just as we are sealed after we believe.
Today, the core of what one must overcome if they think there was a 2nd angelic rebellion in the days of Noah.
If there was a rebellion in the days of Noah, here is what you have to overcome
If we set aside scripture and centuries of Jewish and Christian understanding that there was just 1 rebellion led by a cherub named Lucifer, and consider a 2nd angelic rebellion in the time of Noah, how would that be done?
First, God would need to create the right 'body part' in their angelic bodies
Jesus said that in heaven people are 'as the angels in heaven' (Mt 22:30, Mk 12:25).
The act of sex is of this natural world. Only physical beings in a physical world have the need for reproduction. Angels are not mating, making little angel babies in heaven. They are spirit-beings with spirit-bodies so reproduction isn't something they are equipped for.
On the earth, God commanded all plants and animals including humans, to multiply and fill the earth. In the realm of the Spirit there is no reproduction, no planet to fill, so angels don't have 'the equipment' physically to do so.
To have a second rebellion in which angels mate with women,
God Himself would have to be actively involved in the rebellion. Angels could not just 'grow' genitalia. Beyond that, God is the Source of all life. God would have to give them the 'seed' in their angelic bodies to be able to conceive with women.
If you believe the 'sons of God' were angels in a 2nd rebellion, you must make God complicit in the rebellion. In other words, He would have had to cooperate with the rebelling angels, helping them. He would have had to change their spiritual bodies to give them genitalia and THEN give them the seed required to conceive with a human woman.
Next issue:Cross-species reproduction
IF we make God part of the rebellion by creating in those rebellious angels the genitalia and then giving them the 'seed' with which to conceive with human women, we have the issue of cross-species mating.
Genesis tells us the Lord created life on the earth to create 'after its kind'. (Genesis 1:11-12, 21-25). God too remember, when all the lower life was created, decided to make beings after His own kind - you and me.
Everything after its kind:Cats mate with cats, dogs mate with dogs, elephants with elephants and so on. You won't see a cat conceiving with a dog (Would that be a 'dat' or a 'cog'? lol). You won't see an elephant mating with a rhinoceros and producing an offspring. (Would that be an eliphino? lol)
So once again God would have to become involved
To allow angels who are a higher class of creation, mate with human women in a cross-species conception and production of hybrid children - (hybrids are sterile) - that's what those who believe there was a 2nd angelic rebellion argue for.
For one to believe such things, they have to ignore Psalm 8:4-6 that says man was made a little lower than the angels. We are a lesser being as we aren't in the higher realm of the Spirit of God (yet). So again, God would have to be involved, breaking His Genesis command, to allow a higher order of creation, angels, to mate with a lesser species.
Can a horse mate with a lower order of creation like an alligator? Can a whale mate with a lower order of creation like a jellyfish? Then how could angels cross-species conceive with lower life forms (humans) unless God gave them the body parts, gave them 'seed', and then broke more of His laws by allowing cross-species and high to lower order of species conception?
Consider how much of a higher class of being angels in heaven are.
Angels have power as authorized by the Father, to destroy cities* or whole armies*. They appear in this realm at the Father's will. *Genesis 19:1-13, Isaiah 37:36)
Elijah went 40 days on the strength of 2 small meals* provided by the angel, showing food in heaven being a higher form of creation, has a life and strength giving ability far above earth food for earth bodies. *I Kings 19:5-12
All this means God would have to be personally involved in a 2nd rebellion:How else could beings of such superior creation be given the genitalia and the seed with which to conceive cross-species with lowly humans, except God the Father gave them the ability to do so? (While suspending His creation command that all things produce only after their kind)
It is well documented
When a human being is conceived, scientists have observed a flash of light at that moment. The Bible tells us in Hebrews 12:9, Zechariah 12:1 and other places that God is the one who provides the spirit when a person is conceived.
So for an angel to be given the 'equipment' and then the seed to conceive with human women in a cross-species, higher to lower conception, God would once again have to be involved to provide the life at the moment of conception.
It couldn't happen. He would be as guilty as they in the rebellion.
Angels saw the daughters of men were 'beautiful'?
Let's stop and consider if we believe angels looked down on the earth and saw human women were beautiful.
(The Hebrew word 'towb' used here is 'beautiful', 'appealing to the senses'. It is used elsewhere to describe good smelling perfume and good tasting food. Genesis 41:5, Song of Solomon 1:3, etc.)
Supposedly angels looked at beautiful women...
...in the time of Noah and said they wanted to have sex with them. First, it takes human flesh to be tempted with lust. James 1:13 says God is not tempted nor tested by evil. One reason is that the Father doesn't have human flesh by which He might be tempted. The Father doesn't know hunger, sleep, the need to relieve himself, nor what it means to be tempted sexually - he has no earthly flesh by which to be tempted.
Angels have heavenly/spirit bodies as well, so how could they be tempted with earth-body temptations?
That is why Christ had to become a human being
He had to experience temptation and not fail. He had to take upon Him human flesh which allowed Him to be tempted. If you are in the Spirit you are not tempted - you have to have an earth body to be tempted. Think about how we see this now in a small way - when we are in worship and in His presence, have you noticed all temptations, stresses, fears, and such of this world are not present? We currently experience this for a moment, but angels live in that peace, the focus on the spiritual - they don't have earth bodies to be tempted with earthly temptations.
Hmmm...for people who believe that angels back then saw that human women were beautiful, aren't there many more beautiful women on earth now with over 8 billion people alive? Most statistics I've seen say they estimate world population in the time of Abraham was about 5 million. In Noah's time we would think far fewer than that.
So...If there was an angelic rebellion over the beauty of women in Noah's time
Why haven't there been many more angelic rebellions since? There are many more beautiful women alive now and even in centuries past, than with Noah. The logic falls apart doesn't it? If you believe the motivation for the angelic rebellion was the beauty of earth-women, then why haven't we had multiple angelic rebellions since? That theory fall apart quickly doesn't it?
So how is it some believe angelic beings, superior to man, develop the natural senses that a lower class of creation, humans have, and would appeal to their flesh which they didn't have? We may think a dog or cat is beautiful, but it doesn't arouse us in that way - so why would we think such higher created beings would condescend to lowly humans, to be aroused with senses they weren't created with to want to have sex with them? It doesn't make sense.
Next week - who were the 'sons of God'?
Until then, blessings!
John Fenn
www.cwowi.org and email me at [email protected]
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