Hi all,
This installment is a bit longer than normal, but I hope helpful. During our time in that little town on the prairie of Colorado, the Lord visited us many times, teaching us many things; some is shared in Pursuing the Seasons of God.
That January when our pay was $15
Barb skillfully used up every bit of food in the house, making combinations of things so the boys never knew how empty our shelves were. But one day at 4pm/16.00 she said to me quite exasperated:"It's 4 o'clock and I need to start dinner by 4:30, and we have nothing, literally nothing in the house to eat. What are you going to do about it?"
I told her calmly that I had checked my heart, I knew I was in the middle of the Lord's will, Jesus said in Matthew 6 not to worry about what to eat or wear for the Father takes care of that, so He will provide. She quickly came to a point of peace, and that was that. Ten minutes later, at 4:10pm some folks from our church arrived in their truck. They owned a dairy, and said they felt impressed to buy us food and give us milk. Their truck was loaded with food. In 10 minutes we went from bare shelves and empty refrigerator, to completely stocked, even to the point of 5 gallons of fresh milk. She was able to start dinner at 4:30/16.30 as planned.
A few months later she noticed a little area on the back enclosed porch of the house we rented that was just wide enough for a small chest freezer. (28 inches/.71m) Her motive was to never again run out of food, which she determined was a need, not a desire.
Living in a farming and ranching community...
And with 3 boys and me to feed, Barb asked the Father for a little chest freezer to fit that space. 2 days later a woman in the church contacted her. She had a friend moving out of the country on business who wanted to give her chest freezer to someone. The lady in our church felt led to ask Barb if she wanted her friend's freezer. It fit perfectly. Barb then said something like; "Okay, thank you for that Father, now I'd like to fill it with beef." That Sunday, a woman whose family owned a ranch, asked Barb if she'd like 1/4 of a beef (close to 200 pounds/90k) - it filled that freezer to the full!
Same pattern:Determine in your heart what is need, then make specific request to meet that need, then thanksgiving, fulfillment comes, then more thanks giving. Barb even refined it further, asking the Father:"Father, thank you for the food people bring us, but much of it isn't brands that we eat and some is outdated. Could you make it so they start bringing us our brands of food?" Immediately, things changed. She is pretty remarkable.
Example:We eat only organic nothing added peanut butter, and more than once Barb was stretched for money, yet the boys needed peanut butter. When going to the store Barb would often feel a hesitation about including peanut butter in the food budget. This happened to the point she would be at the store and stretch her hand towards a jar on a shelf, and would feel a heaviness like 'don't do that'. She would obey, and Sunday morning there would be 2 jars of our brand on our pew that someone in the church felt led to buy for us.
In our area onions were a big crop, and we would often find onions on the side of the road that had bounced out of an onion truck - vegetable 'road kill' helped feed us, plus veggies people in the church would bring. Things like this helped feed our family those nearly 6 years as pastors of that church.
Let me add this about need vs desire.
We have learned by experience, when we keep our priorities straight, limiting our requests to needs, He finds a way to give us desires flowing forth from the meeting of the need. I always say He moves from the vague to the specific, within the context of communication with us. First we perceive a sense of something in our spirit, and as we focus on that we perceive more detail, for example.
It is the same way asking Him to meet our need. Once we express our needs, He seems to delight in including some desires. Don't make a formula out of it, just talk to Him.
Earlier I shared about the house we rented in Tulsa, saying our need was for 3 bedrooms, 2 baths, garage...very true needs. When we were led to that house, not only were the needs met, but the Father included desires - a bigger living room and dining than we had hoped for, the color scheme throughout was perfect and beyond the little we had identified as need. Extra things like wood flooring in the kitchen, red brick fireplace (we had just said fireplace), butcher block counter tops which was in style and we liked at the time, huge refrigerator included, etc. So we ask for the few true needs, and from that He provides the details which were desires. BIG lesson there.
When the natural and spiritual come together, then you move
In the natural, Chris had started having seizures, which often happens in puberty with brain damaged children we were told, meaning we needed specialized medical care for him. He also needed Special Education which none of the 3 school districts in the area offered in 1992. The other 2 boys and Barb had gone as far as they could with home school and such. The church had a crisis when an elder was accused of inappropriate behavior, and so on. That was happening 'in the natural'.
It is when the spiritual and the natural intersect that a person knows it is the Lord's time to make a change.
Spiritually, our hearts had become larger than our congregation's. They were only concerned with our little valley. We had grown in our vision and wanted to reach the world. That change in us was the result of realizing until and unless Chris was healed, we could not go as missionaries anywhere outside the US. We knew something had to change, the natural events demanded it. But we had no spiritual leading, so we knew not to move until direction was given.
In Numbers 9 we see the process:The glory cloud lifted off the tabernacle as a signal for Israel to begin packing. When packed, the cloud moved, so they moved. We sense the cloud lift, but we haven't a clue when or which direction the cloud will move. Let it lift, do what you need to prepare - but wait until you actually sense the glory cloud moving on and for you to follow.
I told the Father one day:"If we can't go, maybe you could use me to train others who could go in our stead." Surprisingly, He directly replied:"Where have you always felt the most fulfilled?" I mentally reviewed all the jobs I'd had since I was a teenager, and the common thread running through them was that I enjoyed the small groups of people the best. The few people I could interact with and get to know. It didn't matter whether it was ministry or construction, restaurant work or training horses, I liked small groups of people I could invest in.
Then He told me
He had appointed me the Director of a Bible school, at a larger church with a K-12 school, a strong outreach emphasis, but He didn't say where. Try as hard as I could to find something in Colorado, nothing resembled what He described to me. We kept pulling a tug in our hearts to Tulsa. "OH NO! Not Tulsa! Not back to where there are so many Bible school graduates they're working in gas stations!" (I really did say that to the Father) But we couldn't deny it. After calling a friend in Tulsa and describing what the Father was telling me, he said that sounds like Victory Christian Center, Pastor Billy Joe Daugherty.
I drove there in September of 1992, attended a Wednesday night service, learned more of the church, attended an outreach, and it all bore witness that we were to be part of that. When I got back to Colorado and it bore witness with Barb, we moved to the Tulsa area in December 1992. I knew I was to be their Bible school Director, but they didn't know it. So I got a 'regular' job, and we volunteered in the adult Sunday school. About 18 months later, in the late summer of 1994 and through the relationships we had built with some of the Sunday school staff, I became Associate Director of the Bible school, then then in 1997 the Executive Director.
What did we learn at Victory?
They were the best of times, they were the worst of times, lol. I'm going to add an epilogue to this 6 part series next week to share some of the struggles we've had and lessons learned in marriage, and how we've grown through it all. But for now, what we learned being a leader in a mega-church, at that time the local paper estimated 13,000 people, was 'professional Christianity'. That's what we learned. The professional side of ministry in the 'buckle of the Bible belt' in the USA. Tulsa, Oklahoma, home to Oral Roberts, Kenneth Hagin, T.L. Osborn, Kathryn Kuhlman, Roberts Liardon, Carlton Pearson, Mother (Grace) Tucker, and Billy Joe Daugherty, to name a few.
I loved the job, teaching about 600 or so students who would come through each year, most part time but 130 or so full time. I enjoyed filling in for pastor at the services when he was out of town. I enjoyed visiting with some of the biggest names in big name ministry. I had former students go to work for these people, and heard the stories. A neighbor whom we had bought our 3 horses from, was the head of security for the biggest 'healing TV evangelist' at the time - so I saw and heard many behind the scenes things that were just not right. I saw the emphasis on appearance and hiding the truth. If you raised an issue, you were the one accused of having an issue. (Read Return of the First Church)
I also saw those who slipped through the cracks:The woman who committed suicide - she had been in one of my classes and sang in the choir. How was it no one knew her and she didn't know anyone close enough to stop her? The lack of willingness to monetarily help faithful members and staff with emergency expenses, and more. I began seeking the Father, comparing scripture with how the professional auditorium culture did church. I proposed some changes in a poorly written proposal, and got rebuked. I couldn't change the church from the inside, so I sought the Lord.
The wear and tear of being in that position was taking its toll on us
Marriage and my relationship with my kids in particular. I was working long hours, sometimes 80 hours a week, and I was on staff for 6 years. Chris, aged 14-20 years old during those years, and not in school, had to wear a diaper at home because Barb wasn't strong enough to get him onto a toilet. He hated it and regularly got angry at his mom, even hitting her out of frustration, embarrassed having to mess in his pants. And that put strain on Barb. They went through a great deal allowing me to be on staff and I am still appreciative and know the Lord is too.
By the 1999-2000 school year
I was praying in tongues long hours just to try to stay full enough to pour out to the students in the classes I taught and other responsibilities. I was running on empty. I've long used the Zechariah 4:6 quote:"Not by might, nor by power, but by my Spirit says the Lord", but the larger context is what I lacked. In Zechariah 4:1-6 it shows 2 olive trees (Word & Spirit) supplying oil to a large bowl. The bowl overflows into a pipe, which flows into small lamps which burn the oil. The overflow fills the lamps, but there is always a full bowl from the sources of the oil that fuels it all. The bowl is our spirit, filled with the oil of the Spirit. The people get only the overflow, what's in our spirit, the bowl, is for us, to sustain us daily. It got to a point I was giving out of the bowl, I was too tired and busy to have any overflow.
If there is no longer an overflow, you have to stop and refill the bowl or you start giving others what was intended for you. I resigned in May of 2000 shocking everyone. I traveled on my own for a time, then was asked by C. Peter Wagner to help him start an association of Bible schools that were certificate giving schools, not degree granting schools.
Soon, while living in Tulsa,
I was traveling every 4-6 weeks to Colorado Springs, and later when he made me the Canadian National Director for his Bible school, to Red Deer, Alberta, and all over Canada. All along the way I was seeking how the Lord would have us do church, where His next move was, and my part in it. Whereever I traveled the pastors and Bible school Directors asked the same 3 questions:How do I grow my church (or school)? How do I pay for my church (or school)? How do I keep people from leaving my church (or school)? Each claimed to be different, yet they were all the same.
February 4, 2001
I was in the Toronto area when in the middle of the worship part of the service, the Lord visited me. Among the things He said are:"See what I see. People running to and fro to this meeting and that, looking for the spectacular, thinking THAT is supernatural, while they miss the supernatural work in their midst, even in their own hearts, for the process of discipleship IS supernatural." and, "As it was in the beginning so it must be now; I'm moving in relationships."
November 4 that year is when the Lord visited again, telling me to start a house church and house church network:"And structure it in such a way to facilitate the development of house churches around the world." At that point in late 2001, Peter was starting what became known as the NAR, the New Apostolic Reformation, and I was going in the other direction and didn't agree with where he was going. I resigned and we parted friends, and he continued to build up the NAR and we started The Church Without Walls International.
Next week an epilogue, stresses, and keys to staying married! Until then, blessings,
John Fenn
cwowi.org and email me at [email protected] or [email protected]
This installment is a bit longer than normal, but I hope helpful. During our time in that little town on the prairie of Colorado, the Lord visited us many times, teaching us many things; some is shared in Pursuing the Seasons of God.
That January when our pay was $15
Barb skillfully used up every bit of food in the house, making combinations of things so the boys never knew how empty our shelves were. But one day at 4pm/16.00 she said to me quite exasperated:"It's 4 o'clock and I need to start dinner by 4:30, and we have nothing, literally nothing in the house to eat. What are you going to do about it?"
I told her calmly that I had checked my heart, I knew I was in the middle of the Lord's will, Jesus said in Matthew 6 not to worry about what to eat or wear for the Father takes care of that, so He will provide. She quickly came to a point of peace, and that was that. Ten minutes later, at 4:10pm some folks from our church arrived in their truck. They owned a dairy, and said they felt impressed to buy us food and give us milk. Their truck was loaded with food. In 10 minutes we went from bare shelves and empty refrigerator, to completely stocked, even to the point of 5 gallons of fresh milk. She was able to start dinner at 4:30/16.30 as planned.
A few months later she noticed a little area on the back enclosed porch of the house we rented that was just wide enough for a small chest freezer. (28 inches/.71m) Her motive was to never again run out of food, which she determined was a need, not a desire.
Living in a farming and ranching community...
And with 3 boys and me to feed, Barb asked the Father for a little chest freezer to fit that space. 2 days later a woman in the church contacted her. She had a friend moving out of the country on business who wanted to give her chest freezer to someone. The lady in our church felt led to ask Barb if she wanted her friend's freezer. It fit perfectly. Barb then said something like; "Okay, thank you for that Father, now I'd like to fill it with beef." That Sunday, a woman whose family owned a ranch, asked Barb if she'd like 1/4 of a beef (close to 200 pounds/90k) - it filled that freezer to the full!
Same pattern:Determine in your heart what is need, then make specific request to meet that need, then thanksgiving, fulfillment comes, then more thanks giving. Barb even refined it further, asking the Father:"Father, thank you for the food people bring us, but much of it isn't brands that we eat and some is outdated. Could you make it so they start bringing us our brands of food?" Immediately, things changed. She is pretty remarkable.
Example:We eat only organic nothing added peanut butter, and more than once Barb was stretched for money, yet the boys needed peanut butter. When going to the store Barb would often feel a hesitation about including peanut butter in the food budget. This happened to the point she would be at the store and stretch her hand towards a jar on a shelf, and would feel a heaviness like 'don't do that'. She would obey, and Sunday morning there would be 2 jars of our brand on our pew that someone in the church felt led to buy for us.
In our area onions were a big crop, and we would often find onions on the side of the road that had bounced out of an onion truck - vegetable 'road kill' helped feed us, plus veggies people in the church would bring. Things like this helped feed our family those nearly 6 years as pastors of that church.
Let me add this about need vs desire.
We have learned by experience, when we keep our priorities straight, limiting our requests to needs, He finds a way to give us desires flowing forth from the meeting of the need. I always say He moves from the vague to the specific, within the context of communication with us. First we perceive a sense of something in our spirit, and as we focus on that we perceive more detail, for example.
It is the same way asking Him to meet our need. Once we express our needs, He seems to delight in including some desires. Don't make a formula out of it, just talk to Him.
Earlier I shared about the house we rented in Tulsa, saying our need was for 3 bedrooms, 2 baths, garage...very true needs. When we were led to that house, not only were the needs met, but the Father included desires - a bigger living room and dining than we had hoped for, the color scheme throughout was perfect and beyond the little we had identified as need. Extra things like wood flooring in the kitchen, red brick fireplace (we had just said fireplace), butcher block counter tops which was in style and we liked at the time, huge refrigerator included, etc. So we ask for the few true needs, and from that He provides the details which were desires. BIG lesson there.
When the natural and spiritual come together, then you move
In the natural, Chris had started having seizures, which often happens in puberty with brain damaged children we were told, meaning we needed specialized medical care for him. He also needed Special Education which none of the 3 school districts in the area offered in 1992. The other 2 boys and Barb had gone as far as they could with home school and such. The church had a crisis when an elder was accused of inappropriate behavior, and so on. That was happening 'in the natural'.
It is when the spiritual and the natural intersect that a person knows it is the Lord's time to make a change.
Spiritually, our hearts had become larger than our congregation's. They were only concerned with our little valley. We had grown in our vision and wanted to reach the world. That change in us was the result of realizing until and unless Chris was healed, we could not go as missionaries anywhere outside the US. We knew something had to change, the natural events demanded it. But we had no spiritual leading, so we knew not to move until direction was given.
In Numbers 9 we see the process:The glory cloud lifted off the tabernacle as a signal for Israel to begin packing. When packed, the cloud moved, so they moved. We sense the cloud lift, but we haven't a clue when or which direction the cloud will move. Let it lift, do what you need to prepare - but wait until you actually sense the glory cloud moving on and for you to follow.
I told the Father one day:"If we can't go, maybe you could use me to train others who could go in our stead." Surprisingly, He directly replied:"Where have you always felt the most fulfilled?" I mentally reviewed all the jobs I'd had since I was a teenager, and the common thread running through them was that I enjoyed the small groups of people the best. The few people I could interact with and get to know. It didn't matter whether it was ministry or construction, restaurant work or training horses, I liked small groups of people I could invest in.
Then He told me
He had appointed me the Director of a Bible school, at a larger church with a K-12 school, a strong outreach emphasis, but He didn't say where. Try as hard as I could to find something in Colorado, nothing resembled what He described to me. We kept pulling a tug in our hearts to Tulsa. "OH NO! Not Tulsa! Not back to where there are so many Bible school graduates they're working in gas stations!" (I really did say that to the Father) But we couldn't deny it. After calling a friend in Tulsa and describing what the Father was telling me, he said that sounds like Victory Christian Center, Pastor Billy Joe Daugherty.
I drove there in September of 1992, attended a Wednesday night service, learned more of the church, attended an outreach, and it all bore witness that we were to be part of that. When I got back to Colorado and it bore witness with Barb, we moved to the Tulsa area in December 1992. I knew I was to be their Bible school Director, but they didn't know it. So I got a 'regular' job, and we volunteered in the adult Sunday school. About 18 months later, in the late summer of 1994 and through the relationships we had built with some of the Sunday school staff, I became Associate Director of the Bible school, then then in 1997 the Executive Director.
What did we learn at Victory?
They were the best of times, they were the worst of times, lol. I'm going to add an epilogue to this 6 part series next week to share some of the struggles we've had and lessons learned in marriage, and how we've grown through it all. But for now, what we learned being a leader in a mega-church, at that time the local paper estimated 13,000 people, was 'professional Christianity'. That's what we learned. The professional side of ministry in the 'buckle of the Bible belt' in the USA. Tulsa, Oklahoma, home to Oral Roberts, Kenneth Hagin, T.L. Osborn, Kathryn Kuhlman, Roberts Liardon, Carlton Pearson, Mother (Grace) Tucker, and Billy Joe Daugherty, to name a few.
I loved the job, teaching about 600 or so students who would come through each year, most part time but 130 or so full time. I enjoyed filling in for pastor at the services when he was out of town. I enjoyed visiting with some of the biggest names in big name ministry. I had former students go to work for these people, and heard the stories. A neighbor whom we had bought our 3 horses from, was the head of security for the biggest 'healing TV evangelist' at the time - so I saw and heard many behind the scenes things that were just not right. I saw the emphasis on appearance and hiding the truth. If you raised an issue, you were the one accused of having an issue. (Read Return of the First Church)
I also saw those who slipped through the cracks:The woman who committed suicide - she had been in one of my classes and sang in the choir. How was it no one knew her and she didn't know anyone close enough to stop her? The lack of willingness to monetarily help faithful members and staff with emergency expenses, and more. I began seeking the Father, comparing scripture with how the professional auditorium culture did church. I proposed some changes in a poorly written proposal, and got rebuked. I couldn't change the church from the inside, so I sought the Lord.
The wear and tear of being in that position was taking its toll on us
Marriage and my relationship with my kids in particular. I was working long hours, sometimes 80 hours a week, and I was on staff for 6 years. Chris, aged 14-20 years old during those years, and not in school, had to wear a diaper at home because Barb wasn't strong enough to get him onto a toilet. He hated it and regularly got angry at his mom, even hitting her out of frustration, embarrassed having to mess in his pants. And that put strain on Barb. They went through a great deal allowing me to be on staff and I am still appreciative and know the Lord is too.
By the 1999-2000 school year
I was praying in tongues long hours just to try to stay full enough to pour out to the students in the classes I taught and other responsibilities. I was running on empty. I've long used the Zechariah 4:6 quote:"Not by might, nor by power, but by my Spirit says the Lord", but the larger context is what I lacked. In Zechariah 4:1-6 it shows 2 olive trees (Word & Spirit) supplying oil to a large bowl. The bowl overflows into a pipe, which flows into small lamps which burn the oil. The overflow fills the lamps, but there is always a full bowl from the sources of the oil that fuels it all. The bowl is our spirit, filled with the oil of the Spirit. The people get only the overflow, what's in our spirit, the bowl, is for us, to sustain us daily. It got to a point I was giving out of the bowl, I was too tired and busy to have any overflow.
If there is no longer an overflow, you have to stop and refill the bowl or you start giving others what was intended for you. I resigned in May of 2000 shocking everyone. I traveled on my own for a time, then was asked by C. Peter Wagner to help him start an association of Bible schools that were certificate giving schools, not degree granting schools.
Soon, while living in Tulsa,
I was traveling every 4-6 weeks to Colorado Springs, and later when he made me the Canadian National Director for his Bible school, to Red Deer, Alberta, and all over Canada. All along the way I was seeking how the Lord would have us do church, where His next move was, and my part in it. Whereever I traveled the pastors and Bible school Directors asked the same 3 questions:How do I grow my church (or school)? How do I pay for my church (or school)? How do I keep people from leaving my church (or school)? Each claimed to be different, yet they were all the same.
February 4, 2001
I was in the Toronto area when in the middle of the worship part of the service, the Lord visited me. Among the things He said are:"See what I see. People running to and fro to this meeting and that, looking for the spectacular, thinking THAT is supernatural, while they miss the supernatural work in their midst, even in their own hearts, for the process of discipleship IS supernatural." and, "As it was in the beginning so it must be now; I'm moving in relationships."
November 4 that year is when the Lord visited again, telling me to start a house church and house church network:"And structure it in such a way to facilitate the development of house churches around the world." At that point in late 2001, Peter was starting what became known as the NAR, the New Apostolic Reformation, and I was going in the other direction and didn't agree with where he was going. I resigned and we parted friends, and he continued to build up the NAR and we started The Church Without Walls International.
Next week an epilogue, stresses, and keys to staying married! Until then, blessings,
John Fenn
cwowi.org and email me at [email protected] or [email protected]
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