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Do you use spiritual soap, or spiritual body wash? 1 of 3

9/27/2025

Hi all,

What do I mean spiritual soap, or spiritual body wash? Stay with me, this is a metaphor for a huge spiritual principle.

I watched a post on Instagram from a wife complaining that her husband uses a bar of soap in the shower to clean himself, washing his whole body with that 1 bar of soap. She asked why his complextion was flawless, while her complexion is a constant work in progress though she spends several minutes each morning and evening with various body washes and facial products. Her face was always having issues ranging from pimples to oily to dryness. Why? She asked.

As I watched I thought to myself:"Because your husband uses soap and you just use chemicals that disrupt your body's natural oils and balance." There is a spiritual lesson to be learned.

In the USA:Did you know that 'soap' is recognized as having certain properties that make it soap?
A product (in the US) cannot call itself 'soap' unless it includes these ingredients, as per the Federal Drug Administration, 21 CFR § 701.20. To be labeled 'soap' a product must meet ALL 3 conditions:

1) The product consists of an alkali salt of fatty acids. (Combining fats or oils with an alkali such as lye).
2) The detergent properties of the product are due to the alkali-fatty acid compounds.
3) The product is labeled, sold, and represented only as soap.
(Claims of moisturizing or making a person smell nice, would classify it as a cosmetic.)

There is no specific definition in the US for a 'body wash'. 'Body wash' is understood to be a liquid for the body, with most of them considered a cosmetic under US law, which are regulated with different requirements as to their ingredients.

I found out as a teenager
By trial and error I discovered that real soap kept pimples away from my face, along with never touching my face directly with my fingers. I've been using that soap (Zest) ever since, plus 'Grandma's Lye Soap', which is very mild. True soap kills bacteria, which is why it prevents or kills pimples.

A person might be washing themselves with something labeled 'body wash' or something else other than 'soap', thinking they are washing with soap, and left wondering like the wife above about why they aren't seeing good results. They don't realize they are (probably) washing themselves with chemicals that don't have the qualities of 'soap'.

Spiritually it is the same thing:
A person may be washing themselves with what they think is the Word, but in reality, it isn't true 'spiritual soap'. Paul's great concern in II Corinthians 11:4 was they would leave the gospel they had received, leave the Jesus they had received, and leave the Spirit they had received, for a counterfeit.

Some may think they are washing with the genuine soap, but all they are using is a body wash. They may think they believe in the same gospel they originally received, the same Jesus they originally received, the same Spirit they originally received, but they almost without notice exchanged the genuine for 'spiritual body wash', not the real 'soap'.

Another gospel, another Jesus, another Spirit - what does that look like?
The door that was opened to leave the genuine 'soap' for the 'body wash', Paul reveals in the verses immediately after v4. For in verses 5-11 he talks of how they were in strife with him, not accepting his ministry to them, not supporting his ministry to them.

In other words, they were offended at him, and that is very often the first step to opening the door to the counterfeit. Someone doesn't agree with what someone taught. I remember a case where someone emailed me in anger, demanding I remove them from our Weekly Thoughts emails. I checked their history and they had been a subscriber for over a year, meaning over 52 Weekly Thoughts. But it was 1 in particular that offended them because they didn't agree with me.

I wrote them with the intent of showing their immaturity and childishness of their expectations. I asked if they agreed with their boss 100% of the time, and if not, why don't they quit in a fit of anger at the first disagreement? I asked if he agreed with his wife 100% of the time, and if not, why hasn't he gotten divorced? So why would he be so angry at me about a teaching after over a year of receiving those emails, that he would angrily demand to be unsubscribed? I don't know what happened to him - but I laid before the choice of continuing in childhood or growing up into manhood, spiritually speaking.

Offense is often more subtle, disguised as 'this doesn't do anything for me anymore', so they turn to others that will scratch that itch for the spiritual tingles. At some point, sometimes years after having believed the counterfiet, that person will 'wake up' and realize they have turned off the path of the genuine gospel, Jesus, and Spirit, into error.

Accepting a false message - what do those ministries look like?
In verses 5-11 Paul speak of them being offended at him, and in v12-13 he shifts to talk about those presenting false messages:

"And what I am doing I will continue to do, to undermine the claim of those who desire to be considered equal to the work that we do. For they are false apostles, for they work by deceit, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ."

The Greek word in v12 for 'deceit' is 'dolos' and means ''a bait, a snare". Those presenting a different gospel, Jesus, Spirit bait people. Have you ever heard the Internet term 'click bait'? It means to post something spectacular to get people's attention so they will click the link. It's happened to me in a few interviews, in which the person interviewing me advertises they are interviewing me, but with a 1 line spectacular statement as 'click bait'. My point isn't to criticize that (which was out of my control anyway) but to point to the fact Satan deceives many by those same tactics. And just because you click that link doesn't make you off-balance, nor does it mean that ministry is off-balance - my point is to provide an example in our time of what Paul meant when he said false ministers bait people as a snare to get them to follow them.

We will pick it up there next time. Realize the path Jesus leads always intends to develop moral excellence, self-control, consistency in that self-control, brotherly love, unconditional love, joy, peace, long-suffering towards others, patience, kindness, and so on - if what you are watching doesn't contribute the character of Christ in you, or the fruit of the Spirit in you expressed outwards towards others, then an examination of why that is in your life must take place.

Until next week, blessings,
John Fenn
cwowi.org and email me at [email protected]

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John and Barb's testimony, Epilogue 2 of 2

9/20/2025

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Hi all,

I'll finish the series with more points we've learned along the way...

Soul mate, princess, complete me culture
Years ago 'princess syndrome' was diagnosed in east Asia. It is when young women have been told all their lives they are a princess, and grow up believing it. They think life is all about them, their hair, nails, clothes, interests, and pretty things as they put themselves at the center of attention, while not expecting to have to contribute anything to anyone. In a marriage, it manifests in a wife doing nothing to contribute to the relationship, but expecting to be served. I've seen it several times and divorce was the end result in all. There is no place for narcissism in a marriage. The princess wife sits around all day, won't pick up empty snack items, won't cook, clean, wash, can't stay on budget - he comes home from work and does it all. That's the princess syndrome.

There is another concept in popular culture called 'soul mate', a psychological term that is very ancient, even in Judaism. When it is off-balance, is when a person believes there is one soul mate, predestined for them. Because a person believes their mate is predestined, it sets them up for unrealistic expectations. This contributes to couples not doing the work before they get serious or get married of doing their 'homework' of getting to know one another, learning how to communicate, how to argue, how to develop practical skills needed when 2 individuals live under 1 roof.

A form of love takes the place of the substance of love. One day they see their 'soul mate' isn't perfect, or perhaps it would be more accurate to say they saw those imperfections all along, but they kept thinking they could change them, or they weren't deal-breakers. Disillusion sets in, sometimes bitterness, and tiny things loom as large as mountains.

Does my wife complete me and I her? Yes. Is she my soul mate and I hers? Yes. Are we moving in the same direction of growth in Christ, of godliness, of seeking the best for each other? (Not trying to change each other) We have no agenda but to bless and love each other. It's real life, tough decisions made when you love the other person but don't particularly like them right then. But you love them and grow, adapt, change as a human being in Christ.

That August of 1978 before Barb and I were married in September 1978
The Father was teaching me from I Timothy 5:14, which says in part:"I want the younger women to marry, have children, guide the house..." The margin of my Bible translated 'guide' as 'rule a family'. (That is indeed what the Greek says). In my barely 20 year old, about to be married the next month brain, a verse stating the wife is to rule the house was contrary to everything I had heard or assumed about Christian marriage. And I told the Father exactly that.

He replied:"What is a house?" I said; "It is the physical plant - the walls, roof, plumbing, etc." He replied; "Very well. What is a home?" I responded:"A home is the intangible things, the peace, security, love, that go into making a house a home." He again said:"Very well. The wife is the head of the house, and the husband is the head of the home."

That confused me even more, so I said:"Father, that means if the kitchen sink is clogged, if she is the head of the house, then she should fix it because it's part of the house." He replied with something that set the course for a long and happy marriage:"That right, she may. OR, she may call for the head of the home to fix it, because if the sink isn't fixed the qualities of the home will be jeopardized."

It was then that I realized more than head knowledge, that in the marriage I was about to enter, I was responsible for the intangible qualities of the home. I was to be spiritual head, as Christ loves the church so I was to love my wife - He is love, joy, peace, security in Him, and that is what my wife and future children should sense. We are one, but decorations, cooking and meals and such are part of the house and Barb decorates and manages the house very well. But I am responsible to God for making sure that together, our house is also a home - full of peace, joy, security, grace - So that together we have turned our house into a home.

A three-fold cord isn't quickly broken - doesn't mean his or her mom or sister is the 3rd cord.
That well known phrase from Ecclesiastes 4:11-13 is about the Lord being that 3rd cord in a strong marriage, making it 'not easily broken'. But oftentimes the wife will honor her mother's or sister's or friend's opinions above her husbands, or the husband will do the same of his mother. Boundaries folks, boundaries. There comes a time in every healthy marriage with close families, that the couple must lay down the law and establish boundaries. Feelings will be hurt, but husband and wife together must discipline themselves to keep others out, let them in on their terms, to honor and elevate each other's opinions above all others. Period.

When you love them, but right now you don't like them....
When you love the person but don't like them at that moment, you go back to the core of what you love about them. You go back to the parts of them that caused you to fall in love with them. In that way, when Barb and I have a strong disagreement, it passes like a summer shower, and then we forget it and return to where we were. We step back, return to the core reason we love each other, and that makes whatever arguement we were having, tiny in the big picture of things.

Paul commented in Galatians 2:9 that when Peter, James and John 'perceived the grace' in him and Barnabas, they gave the hand of fellowship, and agreed they 3 would go to the Jews, and Paul and Barnabas would go to the Gentiles. Perceived the grace. Peter later wrote, in his last letter, II Peter 3:15-16 that some of what Paul writes is hard to understand.

In marriage or friendship, it isn't always important that you understand or even agree with the person you love. It IS important you 'perceive the grace' in them, honor that, especially when that grace is in an area different from the subject of the current arguement. Love the grace of Christ in that person and what He has done in their lives. (And the gifts He gave them) See God's grace in their life, and love that grace even if you don't love other things about them. Love the grace. Look for the gifts God has given them, they are what you initially fell in love with. When conflict comes, mentally and emotionally switch your focus to that grace, those things in them you fell in love with.

Submit to one another in Christ
Obedience is an action, submission is a grace in the heart. Submission is when you give a person place in your heart to have authority over you, or with you, or in some way you allow them into your life.

A person can be submitted while being disobedient. A teen can obediently clean their room, but in their heart they are angry, resentful, bitter - not submitted. A wife can go to church in disobedience when her unbelieving husband has forbidden it, but remain submitted to him by being that great wife and/or mother.

Paul's instructions are to submit to one another 'in Christ', meaning you may be submitted to a spouse, but if they ask you to do something in obedience that Jesus wouldn't do, you don't have to. Each person has the right to protect their body, their emotions, from ungodly things their spouse might think they can demand in obedience. That right goes from the bedroom to robbing a bank - if it violates what you think is right or is morally or ethically wrong, the spouse can be disobedient while still submitted in their heart. The one who asks their spouse to violate these things, has issues they need to deal with.

Both go through the difficulty to become one on the other side of conflict
We work side by side in shared responsibilities. It is our house, our kitchen, our laundry, not hers and mine. That said, we each have our areas, our ways of doing things, and they are respected. We give each other freedom to be individuals. Be present and contributing to the overall good.

Yesterday, as I write this, Barb and I were working side by side in the kitchen to prepare 'cashew chicken' with fried rice. I did the rice, she did the chicken. She commented; 'I love working together in the kitchen' and I replied that I do too - it's one of the fun times we have together. The way we move around each other according to our part of the meal is like a well choreographed dance. My fried rice was done at exactly the same time her cashew chicken was done. But early on we were more like the Three Stooges, for we had to learn how each other moved....Now we are Fred and Ginger dancing. And remember, she did all Fred did, but in high heels and backwards, lol. (For those who don't know who they are, watch a Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers movie or go to YouTube and search for clips of them dancing, lol).

That said, in our first week of marriage in our little upstairs apartment, she said to me, 'The trash is full'. I responded, "So empty it." She replied; "In our house, my dad always emptied the trash." I responded, "In our house, whoever topped it off took out the trash." .....I've been taking out the trash ever since, laying down my life in what way.

We celebrate ourselves and honor one another in simple ways, like no phones at the dinner table. In a skill I've learned and still have to work on, when she is talking I let the phone ring, ding, or signal, instead of breaking away from what she is saying. I have assigned honor to her first in my heart, then in practice.

Lessons learned, but there is so much more I could write. For another time perhaps. New subject next week, until then, blessings,

John Fenn
cwowi.org and email me at [email protected]

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Epilogue 1 of 2; John and Barb's testimony, how to stay married

9/13/2025

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Hi all,

I hope readers were able to get to know us better and glean some helpful things in this series. In these epilogues I focus on things we've done wrong and right to remain married and in love all these years.

50 years of dating
In October of 2024 Barb brought up that we were celebrating 50 years of dating, since it was in October 1974 that I asked her to go 'steady'. I often receive emails from people either wanting to be married, deciding if the person they are dating is 'the one', or on the other side, deciding to divorce or stay with, or even missing a spouse who has passed on.

The first element is, we are still dating. I continue to open the car and all doors for her as if we were on a date. On the sidewalk I walk on the street side for her protection. She is my date. We take time to have 'date days' regularly. When Chris was at home and we had his younger brothers to watch him for a while, we might take a walk close to the house, go out to a restaurant or fast food - even just a few minutes celebrating ourselves.

We celebrate the 'I love you's' more than the difficult miles traveled, but the difficulties make the 'I love you's' deeper.

Accepting what you cannot change in the other person.
You are 2 individuals under the same roof. A study found that 1 key to long marriages is the ability to accept things in your spouse that annoy you, choosing to shift focus to gratitude for the positive things. Don't make those minor annoyances deal breakers. Different isn't necessarily wrong. Commune with yourself, whether you are dating and wondering if they are 'the one' or married and struggling to stay married. Don't make little hills along your walk together into mountains. Get over it, walk in love, adapt and grow. Don't expect perfection in your mate, that is a fantasy. Every little article on your list of qualities in a mate won't be checked; if they are you either aren't very deep or are ignoring obvious imperfections. Grow up.

We made a rule before engaged but knowing we'd be married:The "D" word would never come up as a possibility. (Divorce) We purposed that in any difficult situation we will choose to grow in Christ, grow as human beings, together, and never bring up the 'd' word. We will grow in Christ instead, in every situation. When we knew we were in love, we had a couple dates in we talked about 'what it'. What if I became paralyzed, would you stick around? What if I gained 200 pounds (90k)? What if I don't make the bed every morning? What if I don't know how to fix things around the house? What if I come home from work and don't want to cook dinner, will you step in? "What if" helped us to consider and determine how deep was our love.

Think like a man...?
Men are problem solvers, ever since Adam was put in the garden before Eve was created, and the Lord showed him the garden, had him name the animals, and such. Then Eve came along and saw the whole garden and animals all set for her. Ever since, man has been wired to problem solve, seeing only 1 waffle square of a problem at a time. Eve, who saw the completed picture when she was created, thinks like a pile of spaghetti on a plate - every noodle is connected to every other noodle. Every issue is connected. Men just see that 1 waffle square and not the whole waffle. But to her, it is all connected.

A waffle square man:The car won't start this morning. You think; battery? You think; out of gas? You think, electronics issue? She sees a pile of spaghetti:"I'll be late for work. How will the kids get to school? I have a presentation I'll be late for. My boss hates that. I may be fired. I will be embarrassed. Judy hates me anyway, she wants my position, this may give her an advantage. How will our daughter get to her piano lesson? I need to run to the store, what will we have for dinner?" and SO much more in her pile of spaghetti thoughts when she simply says:The car won't start.

Men:When she says, "The car won't start" she is feeling all that is italicized above. ALL of that and MORE is contained in her short little sentence; "The car won't start." Look for the emotion her words contain, don't just hear the words.

Men - learn to listen for those emotions
Address the stress her words contain. Think of her words like a pitcher of worry, fear, concerns, etc. The words are the container, but you need to listen for what is contained therein. Address the fears by presenting solutions before you check the battery. As soon as you hear; 'The car won't start' get ahead of the curve by taking care of each noodle in the pile:"I can take you to work now, and later call a tow truck or have our neighbor take a look at it. I've got a light day so can take our daughter to piano lessons this afternoon. We can have groceries delivered or I can have them brought out to me in the car after piano lessons, or we'll go out to eat." Hear the emotion, the fear, and problem solve THAT.

MANY times I've bee clueless and just asked Barb:"What is your fear? What are you worried about? Help me understand", concerning an issue. Many times she has to tell me what her worry is, then I can address that issue and solve her problem.

Men - it is a learned skill, one that I admit isn't first nature for us and I'm still learning to think 'what is her fear' when I hear a problem presented after 50 years of 'dating' my wife. But she wants you to solve it, so ladies, let him solve it his way. Don't micro-manage. His way may fail and he learns after time and money that your way was right. But then again, often he will solve the problem in a way you never thought of. The 3 words every man loves to hear are...no, not those 3. These 3:"You were right." (lol)

I learned Barb will never think like me, and she has learned I will never think like her. Stop expecting your spouse to think like you. We men move by words and can react without any ulterior motive whatsoever - it's just a waffle square of a problem to be solved. So ladies, stop reading into everything we say and do as if it was connected to a pile of your spaghetti thoughts. To this day I will often tell Barb:"This is just the answer, no emotion, no ulterior motive, no plan B, no manipulation - it is just a waffle square problem I'm trying to solve." I STILL say things like that so she can shift to waffle square mode when I address an issue she raises, because she searches every noodle to see how what I say connects to every other noodle - but most often, I am just stating the waffle square issue, no emotion, no ulterior motive.

I have always, always been faithful to Barb and she to me
But this difference is why a man caught in adultery will say 'She means nothing to me', because he saw the affair as a waffle square. The wife understands adultery is 1 noodle connected to every other noodle and it means everything to her.

She may ask:"How does this dress look?" and she is thinking the dress, her hair, jewelry, shoes, make up. But you hear 'dress' and say; "It's okay, the pattern isn't my favorite" and she hears that her dress doesn't go with her shoes that doesn't go with her earrings that doesn't go with her hair....men, do yourself a favor, problem solve the spaghetti pile before you open your mouth by listening to the whole package, step back from that 1 waffle square to see the whole waffle!

Men; listen to the fear, the worry, the stress behind their words. React and respond to the emotion more than the words. Accept and address her feelings the words contain. THEN once those are addressed, she will allow you to problem solve with freedom, within her parameters. Women - let the man solve the problem. They will do it differently most of the time, but the problem will be solved. Stop trying to tell them how to solve the problem you gave him to solve - don't micro manage, have faith in him. Don't try to get your spouse to think like you - learn to accept the differences and let them handle it.

Conclusion next week, until then, blessings,
John Fenn
cwowi.org and email me at [email protected] or [email protected]

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John and Barb's testimony, 6 of 6

9/5/2025

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Hi all,

This installment is a bit longer than normal, but I hope helpful. During our time in that little town on the prairie of Colorado, the Lord visited us many times, teaching us many things; some is shared in Pursuing the Seasons of God.

That January when our pay was $15
Barb skillfully used up every bit of food in the house, making combinations of things so the boys never knew how empty our shelves were. But one day at 4pm/16.00 she said to me quite exasperated:"It's 4 o'clock and I need to start dinner by 4:30, and we have nothing, literally nothing in the house to eat. What are you going to do about it?"

I told her calmly that I had checked my heart, I knew I was in the middle of the Lord's will, Jesus said in Matthew 6 not to worry about what to eat or wear for the Father takes care of that, so He will provide. She quickly came to a point of peace, and that was that. Ten minutes later, at 4:10pm some folks from our church arrived in their truck. They owned a dairy, and said they felt impressed to buy us food and give us milk. Their truck was loaded with food. In 10 minutes we went from bare shelves and empty refrigerator, to completely stocked, even to the point of 5 gallons of fresh milk. She was able to start dinner at 4:30/16.30 as planned.

A few months later she noticed a little area on the back enclosed porch of the house we rented that was just wide enough for a small chest freezer. (28 inches/.71m) Her motive was to never again run out of food, which she determined was a need, not a desire.

Living in a farming and ranching community...
And with 3 boys and me to feed, Barb asked the Father for a little chest freezer to fit that space. 2 days later a woman in the church contacted her. She had a friend moving out of the country on business who wanted to give her chest freezer to someone. The lady in our church felt led to ask Barb if she wanted her friend's freezer. It fit perfectly. Barb then said something like; "Okay, thank you for that Father, now I'd like to fill it with beef." That Sunday, a woman whose family owned a ranch, asked Barb if she'd like 1/4 of a beef (close to 200 pounds/90k) - it filled that freezer to the full!

Same pattern:Determine in your heart what is need, then make specific request to meet that need, then thanksgiving, fulfillment comes, then more thanks giving. Barb even refined it further, asking the Father:"Father, thank you for the food people bring us, but much of it isn't brands that we eat and some is outdated. Could you make it so they start bringing us our brands of food?" Immediately, things changed. She is pretty remarkable.

Example:We eat only organic nothing added peanut butter, and more than once Barb was stretched for money, yet the boys needed peanut butter. When going to the store Barb would often feel a hesitation about including peanut butter in the food budget. This happened to the point she would be at the store and stretch her hand towards a jar on a shelf, and would feel a heaviness like 'don't do that'. She would obey, and Sunday morning there would be 2 jars of our brand on our pew that someone in the church felt led to buy for us.

In our area onions were a big crop, and we would often find onions on the side of the road that had bounced out of an onion truck - vegetable 'road kill' helped feed us, plus veggies people in the church would bring. Things like this helped feed our family those nearly 6 years as pastors of that church.

Let me add this about need vs desire.
We have learned by experience, when we keep our priorities straight, limiting our requests to needs, He finds a way to give us desires flowing forth from the meeting of the need. I always say He moves from the vague to the specific, within the context of communication with us. First we perceive a sense of something in our spirit, and as we focus on that we perceive more detail, for example.

It is the same way asking Him to meet our need. Once we express our needs, He seems to delight in including some desires. Don't make a formula out of it, just talk to Him.

Earlier I shared about the house we rented in Tulsa, saying our need was for 3 bedrooms, 2 baths, garage...very true needs. When we were led to that house, not only were the needs met, but the Father included desires - a bigger living room and dining than we had hoped for, the color scheme throughout was perfect and beyond the little we had identified as need. Extra things like wood flooring in the kitchen, red brick fireplace (we had just said fireplace), butcher block counter tops which was in style and we liked at the time, huge refrigerator included, etc. So we ask for the few true needs, and from that He provides the details which were desires. BIG lesson there.

When the natural and spiritual come together, then you move
In the natural, Chris had started having seizures, which often happens in puberty with brain damaged children we were told, meaning we needed specialized medical care for him. He also needed Special Education which none of the 3 school districts in the area offered in 1992. The other 2 boys and Barb had gone as far as they could with home school and such. The church had a crisis when an elder was accused of inappropriate behavior, and so on. That was happening 'in the natural'.

It is when the spiritual and the natural intersect that a person knows it is the Lord's time to make a change.

Spiritually, our hearts had become larger than our congregation's. They were only concerned with our little valley. We had grown in our vision and wanted to reach the world. That change in us was the result of realizing until and unless Chris was healed, we could not go as missionaries anywhere outside the US. We knew something had to change, the natural events demanded it. But we had no spiritual leading, so we knew not to move until direction was given.

In Numbers 9 we see the process:The glory cloud lifted off the tabernacle as a signal for Israel to begin packing. When packed, the cloud moved, so they moved. We sense the cloud lift, but we haven't a clue when or which direction the cloud will move. Let it lift, do what you need to prepare - but wait until you actually sense the glory cloud moving on and for you to follow.

I told the Father one day:"If we can't go, maybe you could use me to train others who could go in our stead." Surprisingly, He directly replied:"Where have you always felt the most fulfilled?" I mentally reviewed all the jobs I'd had since I was a teenager, and the common thread running through them was that I enjoyed the small groups of people the best. The few people I could interact with and get to know. It didn't matter whether it was ministry or construction, restaurant work or training horses, I liked small groups of people I could invest in.

Then He told me
He had appointed me the Director of a Bible school, at a larger church with a K-12 school, a strong outreach emphasis, but He didn't say where. Try as hard as I could to find something in Colorado, nothing resembled what He described to me. We kept pulling a tug in our hearts to Tulsa. "OH NO! Not Tulsa! Not back to where there are so many Bible school graduates they're working in gas stations!" (I really did say that to the Father) But we couldn't deny it. After calling a friend in Tulsa and describing what the Father was telling me, he said that sounds like Victory Christian Center, Pastor Billy Joe Daugherty.

I drove there in September of 1992, attended a Wednesday night service, learned more of the church, attended an outreach, and it all bore witness that we were to be part of that. When I got back to Colorado and it bore witness with Barb, we moved to the Tulsa area in December 1992. I knew I was to be their Bible school Director, but they didn't know it. So I got a 'regular' job, and we volunteered in the adult Sunday school. About 18 months later, in the late summer of 1994 and through the relationships we had built with some of the Sunday school staff, I became Associate Director of the Bible school, then then in 1997 the Executive Director.

What did we learn at Victory?
They were the best of times, they were the worst of times, lol. I'm going to add an epilogue to this 6 part series next week to share some of the struggles we've had and lessons learned in marriage, and how we've grown through it all. But for now, what we learned being a leader in a mega-church, at that time the local paper estimated 13,000 people, was 'professional Christianity'. That's what we learned. The professional side of ministry in the 'buckle of the Bible belt' in the USA. Tulsa, Oklahoma, home to Oral Roberts, Kenneth Hagin, T.L. Osborn, Kathryn Kuhlman, Roberts Liardon, Carlton Pearson, Mother (Grace) Tucker, and Billy Joe Daugherty, to name a few.

I loved the job, teaching about 600 or so students who would come through each year, most part time but 130 or so full time. I enjoyed filling in for pastor at the services when he was out of town. I enjoyed visiting with some of the biggest names in big name ministry. I had former students go to work for these people, and heard the stories. A neighbor whom we had bought our 3 horses from, was the head of security for the biggest 'healing TV evangelist' at the time - so I saw and heard many behind the scenes things that were just not right. I saw the emphasis on appearance and hiding the truth. If you raised an issue, you were the one accused of having an issue. (Read Return of the First Church)

I also saw those who slipped through the cracks:The woman who committed suicide - she had been in one of my classes and sang in the choir. How was it no one knew her and she didn't know anyone close enough to stop her? The lack of willingness to monetarily help faithful members and staff with emergency expenses, and more. I began seeking the Father, comparing scripture with how the professional auditorium culture did church. I proposed some changes in a poorly written proposal, and got rebuked. I couldn't change the church from the inside, so I sought the Lord.

The wear and tear of being in that position was taking its toll on us
Marriage and my relationship with my kids in particular. I was working long hours, sometimes 80 hours a week, and I was on staff for 6 years. Chris, aged 14-20 years old during those years, and not in school, had to wear a diaper at home because Barb wasn't strong enough to get him onto a toilet. He hated it and regularly got angry at his mom, even hitting her out of frustration, embarrassed having to mess in his pants. And that put strain on Barb. They went through a great deal allowing me to be on staff and I am still appreciative and know the Lord is too.

By the 1999-2000 school year
I was praying in tongues long hours just to try to stay full enough to pour out to the students in the classes I taught and other responsibilities. I was running on empty. I've long used the Zechariah 4:6 quote:"Not by might, nor by power, but by my Spirit says the Lord", but the larger context is what I lacked. In Zechariah 4:1-6 it shows 2 olive trees (Word & Spirit) supplying oil to a large bowl. The bowl overflows into a pipe, which flows into small lamps which burn the oil. The overflow fills the lamps, but there is always a full bowl from the sources of the oil that fuels it all. The bowl is our spirit, filled with the oil of the Spirit. The people get only the overflow, what's in our spirit, the bowl, is for us, to sustain us daily. It got to a point I was giving out of the bowl, I was too tired and busy to have any overflow.

If there is no longer an overflow, you have to stop and refill the bowl or you start giving others what was intended for you. I resigned in May of 2000 shocking everyone. I traveled on my own for a time, then was asked by C. Peter Wagner to help him start an association of Bible schools that were certificate giving schools, not degree granting schools.

Soon, while living in Tulsa,
I was traveling every 4-6 weeks to Colorado Springs, and later when he made me the Canadian National Director for his Bible school, to Red Deer, Alberta, and all over Canada. All along the way I was seeking how the Lord would have us do church, where His next move was, and my part in it. Whereever I traveled the pastors and Bible school Directors asked the same 3 questions:How do I grow my church (or school)? How do I pay for my church (or school)? How do I keep people from leaving my church (or school)? Each claimed to be different, yet they were all the same.

February 4, 2001
I was in the Toronto area when in the middle of the worship part of the service, the Lord visited me. Among the things He said are:"See what I see. People running to and fro to this meeting and that, looking for the spectacular, thinking THAT is supernatural, while they miss the supernatural work in their midst, even in their own hearts, for the process of discipleship IS supernatural." and, "As it was in the beginning so it must be now; I'm moving in relationships."

November 4 that year is when the Lord visited again, telling me to start a house church and house church network:"And structure it in such a way to facilitate the development of house churches around the world." At that point in late 2001, Peter was starting what became known as the NAR, the New Apostolic Reformation, and I was going in the other direction and didn't agree with where he was going. I resigned and we parted friends, and he continued to build up the NAR and we started The Church Without Walls International.

Next week an epilogue, stresses, and keys to staying married! Until then, blessings,
John Fenn
cwowi.org and email me at [email protected] or [email protected]

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